Well, actually its curving away but Ave H avoid the curve and take you to it at Albany Ave. And from that point its all residential and there are no freight sidings. I would love to see a post about a light rail system , Not very sure about the constraints of light rail (besides politicians lol) Also as Vanshookenraggen stated, the IND Utica Av Station will have to be teared up and relocated. Wilson Ave. Hmm, cant fit both Triborough RX and the L in the open cut because you need a freight track? The ascending tunnel grade would be about 1.4% and the descending 3.3%, both reasonable. And thats a jump I dont think we could ever make. But they can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one big jump from IRT sizing. In IND reports it was proposed to have the line remain as a subway until Ave J where it would ascend to the surface and run elevated, originally to Sheepshead Bay, then later a more simplified route down Flatbush Ave to Floyd Bennett Field. South of Kings Highway would be stations at Flatlands Ave, Ave N and after the line turns down Flatbush Ave, at Ave U-Kings Plaza. But whats your obsession with rerouting the 6th Ave Express to replace (J)/(M) trains? Going further the stations could even be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station. The station's two exits are located at either end. The Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners approved the route on September 27, 1900,[6] and the contract was signed on September 11, 1902. The center of the station slopes down and there is a lowered ceiling compared to the rest of the station. I outlined my plans for 2nd Ave in a previous post but one thing I only mentioned in passion was how Phase 4 could be achieved cheaper if it was connected to Nassau St after Chatham Sq (as in, 2nd Ave would not connect to Centre St by Bowery by to Nassau St by Chambers). 10. Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), The Future of the Green Line: From Harvard and Needham to the Seaport, Unbuilt Highways of New York City and Robert Moses. The Utica Avenue subway station in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. [17] On August 23, 1920, the Eastern Parkway Line was extended from Atlantic Avenue to Crown HeightsUtica Avenue, with the Utica Avenue station opening at this time. Extending Utica north of Eastern Parkway should only ever be done if trains in Williamsburg are beyond capacity and a new East River crossing is needed. Lest I bring on comparisons to Robert Moses I would like to point out that on the western side of Utica Ave, from the Bay Ridge Line to Flatbush Ave, there are exactly 9 residential buildings. Additionally, the Fulton-Utica service would have to be local only with an awkward transfer at Utica Ave station. While cost is an obvious reason for building an elevated over a subway there are also geological concerns in this area as the land through which Utica Ave runs has a very high water table and very sandy soil. The first instance I can find of a proposal for Utica comes from a NY Times article in 1913 where residents were debating the best route. Youre forgetting one thing though when you switched the 3 and 5 terminals. Besides, with Utica so far out it would be much better service to have express trains rather than a longer local train. [19][20], In 1981, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority listed the station among the 69 most deteriorated stations in the subway system. No doubt they will propose some deep bore subway with expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build.. 2- rebuild the Eastern Pkwy Station so that there are provisions for the line to pass through. While this would leave said train with two terminals, Far Rockaway and Ozone Park, this would leave said train heavily congested, because most passengers want to go from Midtown to East New York or The Rockaways, not Midtown to Kings Plaza. Excellent nonetheless. There is also limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here. Then you can continue trains on into Brooklyn. An article today about from Second Avenue Sagas about the 7 line extension station at Hudson Yards, awaiting passengers as the rest of the mega development is completed, reminded us of these.. Messing that up is messing a lot of commuters daily commute. The Crown HeightsUtica Avenue station is an express station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. Even 2nd Ave had to take a few buildings for ventilation plants. Small black tile captions reading "UTICA" in white lettering on a black background run below the trim line at regular intervals. Not a Hitch in the Service. Even with CBTC you are limited to about 10-12 tph on each of the (now) three local services (it most definitely does not turn out 15tph on both local service now, closer to 15tph for both combined). The elevated structure would be built in such a way that future buildings would be built around and above the line. Another weekend or overnight wont kill us! And on what route? Av D/Utica Av is 480 yards away, 6 min walk. Late nights a shuttle will run from Franklin Av to New Lots Av. MTA Bus - B14/B17 - Eastern Pkwy & Utica Av. There is actually going to be a place to connect that will be much easier; the Second Avenue Subways current iteration is supposed to have lower level storage tracks from 21st to 9th Sts. Even today Utica makes too much sense. Might Subway, local and express station, ADA accessible. There were blocked stairways up from the platform level to the upper level that were removed during the station's renovation. Contract 2 extended the original line from City Hall in Manhattan to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. Its smaller for the same reason an Olds Runabout is smaller than a Model T: the technological limitations of the day. 3 and 4 train service through East . Now for the second option. [15] The underground portion of the line became known as the Eastern Parkway Line, or Route 12, while the elevated portion became known as the New Lots Line. Finnaly, the IRT Utica Av doesnt have the provisions for having a IND Utica Av, so either one of two plans will have to happen: 1- Build a Eastern Pkwy Station under the 3/4 and have a steep incline back up to Empire Blvd so it can be able to portal out wherever (originally I thought it was going to portal out at Empire Blvd but I guess im wrong). IF you really wanted to have a branch off of Fulton then the construction would not be as simple as you suggest. But this does not deal with the immediate needs of those that live along Utica Ave. Building an extension of the IRT could be opened long before the section through northern Brooklyn and would have immediate benefits by serving more riders with direct service rather than requiring transferring. But what Im proposing, and what Im sure no City plan would dare propose, is that the line not run above the center of the avenue such as existing elevated but rather along private land on the west side of the street. With IRT you are constrained slightly but smoothing out the Rogers Junction gives you more to work with and if Utica proves more popular than New Lots then you could run some special 4 trains down there at rush hour. If you check out the MTA report I sourced for the Rogers Junction rebuild you can see the two options. This final station is worth considering because even though half the catchment area is parkland and the Mill Basin canal the station would serve the popular Kings Plaza Mall and there is space for a modern bus terminal for better service around southeastern Brooklyn and to the Rockaways. These technological limitations were shortly overcome and the only IRT line that doesnt use part of this original line is the 7 which is limited by the Steinway Tunnel. I think I can solve that problem and still have a train servicing East NY&Brownsville, Mill Basin, and Flatbush/East Flatbush. Make no little plans, Daniel Burnham is purported to have said, they have no magic to stir mens blood. something like that on pillars in refurbished station? Also the train that stays down Fulton past Utica would now have 4 terminals, Euclid Ave, Ozone Park, and The Rockaways. Queens has the big unmet demand; its got the 12th and 25th busiest stations in the system as TERMINALS! Look at the ceiling from the open platform, and at the mezzanine area at the north end. My first thought was that this doesnt jibe with LEX being the busiest single line but then I tallied the ridership numbers for the three lines that go up the west side for a number thats 2 and a half times as big. Connecting the currently planned SAS to Fultons local tracks involves building zero junctions and minimal interlining. Also major problem. The line was proposed to cut across town to Columbus Circle, one avenue block away. The two street stairs here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway west of Utica Avenue. After the 1990s renovation of the Utica Avenue station, the mezzanine was shortened using cinder-block walls and the current tiling in the intermediate level, hiding the chain-link fence and the door behind it. from Eastern Parkway to Flatbush Avenue, extending the #4 by four miles. North of Fulton theres a park for it to curve through, similar to your design for the Second Ave. From the South 4th St station to Eastern Parkway is another 3 miles which would parallel the existing J/M/Z trains. Far simpler with more capacity. C, the yard that would be built over the bus depot would be able to host more trains (btw can it be named Marine Park Yards or Mill Basin Yards) seeing that it is smaller. Building an elevated line designed to integrate into the built landscape rather than dominate it, while not new, is novel and one that will need time for the public to come round to. Renovations also added new old-fashioned light fixtures with modern sodium-vapor lamps in them, which are suspended on long rods from the high, vaulted ceilings. They are not evenly shared. 3 trains dont go to Brooklyn late nights. The Independent Subway System (IND or ISS), formerly known as the Independent City-Owned Subway System (ICOSS) or the Independent City-Owned Rapid Transit Railroad (ICORTR), was a rapid transit rail system in New York City that is now part of the New York City Subway. Jamaica Center would probably be a notch or two higher if it had been designed as terminal and could handle all E train runs. 7. station. 6. The application was approved, and the IRT extension opened on May 1, 1908. Climbing the ramp to the entrance level reveals more windows and doors These doors provide access to the disused portion of the upper level mezzanine, which has steps leading to the disused portion of the intermediate level mezzanine (which in turn leads directly to the unfinished station). The MTA would then lease the land as a way to bring in continued revenue and the new development would help pay for the construction. Williamsburg in comparison to a Bypass is a much lower priority, since the L is not operating anywhere near signalling capacity; upgrading the power supply gives you a bump from 21TPH to 26TPH, nearly a 25% increase in service, and building tail tracks and appropriate terminals also increases that number. Perhaps you are discounting the Fulton St. As someone wiser than I recently put it: Ultimately a project with a higher up front price tag will be an invaluable investment that will pay dividends far into the future.. There is an active tower at the south end of the platform while a closed one exists on the east of the lower level. If we build to IND station size (while making easily-removable platforms extensions that allow the platforms to be disabled accessible to IRT trains) wouldnt that allow the subway to easily expand capacity once they find the money to make an IND connection or just convert the IRT to the IND gauge? One of the main reasons that the City wanted to build the IND was to replace the existing elevated lines which were old, slow, and unpopular as they cast streets in shadow and soot. The Livonia Avenue branch line, known as Route No. Are you saying that IRT cant handle the demand? [9] Above is a disused portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station. Precinct: (718) 735-0611 Community Affairs: (718) 735-0634 Crime Prevention: (718) 735-0658 - Jason Marsman - E-mail: [email protected] - Kelvin Vidal - E-mail: [email protected] Domestic Violence Officer: (718) 735-0600 - E-mail Youth Coordination Officer: (718) 735-0657 . 5 all times except late nights, 6. A, the train is smaller, making it able for more stations. on Jamaica Ave to burrow the Broadway El into Fulton Lines station. And that nine has the corresponding capacity of 12 A Division runs. Renovations added looping maroon tile patterns at the mezzanine level, as well as the platform's floor pattern. For future expansion of the system we need to be open to thinking outside the box. In addition, a two-track branch line along Nostrand Avenue branching off east of the Franklin Avenue station was to be constructed. This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. Outside fare control, there is a token booth and two street stairs, each going to either western corners of Utica Avenue and Fulton Street. The 2 track Worth St Line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg. In California money itd be about 2. Nice ideas so far! This Fascinating Abandoned Train Station In Arizona Is A True Piece Of History. The important thing about the shorter option is that installing these switches could be done overnight or over a weekend and wouldnt require long term, disruptive construction. I dont really see the need for a peak direction track this far out. I also think that building Utica would take some ridership away form Nostrand (those whom transfer via bus) so we should focus on Utica and then see what Nostrand looks like. Split track areas. Other sources indicate that the unused level at Fulton St.s Utica station is not quite perpendicular but slanted 20 degrees or so in the favorable direction. Where do you get 10TPH from? The MTA has only been making these small extensions, the last major one (affected more than 3 lines) was in 1967-1968, which changed the BB, T, TT, D, F, JJ, M, MM, and the QT, and added the QJ, B, and KK. But boring tunnels is much more common these days. Last but not least, are the 2 and 3 doing skip stop? While there are arguments to be made for extending the Nostrand Ave Line south I would argue that with the addition of Utica Ave that demand would be reduced as riders coming from the east or southeast would take Utica over a bus to Nostrand. and Park Aves commuter train viaduct looks good all the time. So we really have to make the most out of the small extensions for now. Building it to Water St requires all new infrastructure there and a new East River tunnel (which isnt needed) and with Nassau St located closer to the heart of the Financial District and with better transfer options (that Water St would not be able to provide) it seems obvious that its a better routing. I would extend the (2)/(5) to Voorhies, with a possible skip-stop to speed up commutes.Otherwise, I agree that this is option MTA will opt for most. Constructed in 1923, Union Station served the . Freeway-style concrete pillars. I see no value in that whatsoever. Youve presented an excellent case for ruling out Williamsburg. [23], The station's full-time exit is at the east end (railroad south) of the platforms. Today, police released a photo of the suspect, who is still at large. There is another part of the IND plan which, as far as I can tell, no one has figured out or brought up yet. 8. The 9 residences, all located at Avenue M can all be replaced (and with new development replaced 100 times over) while the commercial and industrial buildings would all be replaced by buildings of much higher density and better uses than chop shops. Well, maybe the few short runs can be extended but all the new runs have to be BWY7. The big attraction to politicians of boring subways instead of cut-and-cover is that it removes so much uncertainty. Great idea. The 2004 artwork here is part of a series called Good Morning and Good Night. The closest stations to Utica Avenue are: Utica Av/Beverly Rd is 115 yards away, 2 min walk. It's a dense, transit dependent corridor with a recently opened and popular Select Bus Service line and the Utica Ave stations on the 3/4 and A/C have some of the highest ridership on their respective lines. THE IRT IS 3/4 THE SIZE OF THE IND/BMT FOR A REASON. Maybe that money would deliver more bang for the buck if applied here. And as mentioned before, an IRT branch off of Eastern Pkwy should be built instead to reduce this amount of cost, except the (3) should be rerouted there instead of the (5). Six other lines would have to be widened for it to stay as the 4. You took the time to write a response but not to read what I wrote? So theres a source of northern capacity right there. MTA. Environmentalists wont sue over the clouds of dust raised. Its a dense, transit dependent corridor with a recently opened and popular Select Bus Service line and the Utica Ave stations on the 3/4 and A/C have some of the highest ridership on their respective lines. The new IND subway replaced the BMT Fulton Street El. BED-STUY, BROOKLYN A person was hit and killed by a train at Utica Avenue station in Bed-Stuy on Wednesday morning, according to the MTA and FDNY. Why is it diverging to face the Bay Ridge Branch? The point of Utica Ave is that riders are trying to get downtown so who would ever ride the 4 all the way out just to switch to the A when they could have just gotten on the A at the first place. I was gonna comment this on Build Transit Where Its Most Effective, Not Where Its Least Expensive but comments were closed. I disagree that people can just simply take a bus, but extending the Nostrand Av line south is needed. [14] The line was to be extended along Flatbush Avenue and Eastern Parkway to Buffalo Street as a four-track subway line, and then along East 98th Street and Livonia Avenue to New Lots Avenue as an elevated two-track line, with provisions for the addition of a third track. The Crown Heights-Utica Avenue station is an express station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. At Nostrand Avenue and Fulton St, provisions were made for a connection to the proposed Bedford Ave line. Now we dont want that, do we? Now during service changes where the 2/3 arent running to Bkyln, the 4 will serve Flatbush, the 5 will go to Utica, and a shuttle will run from Utica to New Lots. subways or open cut sections. Go for a To keep interlining you need to go with the complicated and expensive Rogers rebuild and I dont think that the service pattern justifies the cost. B46 Utica and Eastern Parkway. Most of the subway system in New York City no longer has that feel . Like Court Square-Court Square awkward? This was built into the station as a provision for the proposed Utica Avenue Line, which is why the station itself has no exits to Utica Avenue. In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. 57 is also proposed at Utica avenue from Eastern parkway to Flatbush avenue. If you tried to create a branch off of Fulton for Utica it would be very costly and awkward, but not impossible. I will say that the Utica stop spacing is fine; its not any wider than the Queens Boulevard local and it stops at every intersecting street with a frequent bus connection. With subway costs so high els may be the only way to go. Abandoned 9th Avenue Subway Station. Median not wide enough for a true viaduct? Flatbush Av-Brooklyn College is 2338 yards away, 28 min walk. This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. The tracks are outlined by a pattern in the ceiling on top of the four trackways at the Utica Avenue station; therefore it appears that there are four trackways and two island platforms running diagonally across the ceiling in the center. Late nights/weekends the 4 will go to Kings Plaza. The second plan would be far cheaper but would require that only local trains have access to Nostrand Ave while the express trains would split past the junction so that half would continue as locals and the other would run express. And D as well if cut-and-cover is used. But the question is what is more dire, commuters coming from Wall St (with their many different subway options) or those coming from Williamsburg (with the congested L)? Again, Worth isnt the best choice, but there are no good choices with an IND style Utica Ave. Not bad. So heres my workup for a design toolkit of el popularizing methods: 1. This seems right as Fulton intersects cross-streets at that angle. There is also sporadic 2 and 5 service during rush hours. Abandoned Stations List; . Utica Av/Av D is 464 yards away, 6 min walk. I-beams and could be outfitted as faades on older structures as they Eastern Py Utica Av. Crown Heights Utica Avenue Station. [3] Crown Heights-Utica Avenue is a station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. [16], The IRT Eastern Parkway Line was built as part of Route 12 from 1915 to 1918. Since youll be maxing out both midtown IRT express lines, New Lots and Utica combined will always have to equal Nostrand. Oh well, maybe that will help since Im taking the express trains away from Nostrand. 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